Podcast hosts should feel like friends with good gossip. Do Meghan Markle and Michelle Obama pass the test?

There’s no shortage of podcasts right now, especially celebrity-hosted ones, but being famous alone does not guarantee a show’s success.

Kylie Kelce turning on her mic in December — to discuss “mom stuff” and “set the record straight” about her famous family — is a great example of what listeners are craving right now: real talk, revelations and authenticity. Not Gonna Lie With Kylie Kelce shot to the top of the charts when it debuted, briefly surpassing Spotify’s perennial No. 1, The Joe Rogan Experience.

More recently, Michelle Obama and Meghan Markle (who now goes by Meghan Sussex) — two of the most-talked-about women in the world, who are relentlessly covered in the press and have strong followings — have both returned to the podcast space with new shows. IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, the former first lady’s chat fest with her brother, debuted March 12. Markle’s Confessions of a Female Founder, about the launch of her As Ever brand, dropped its first episode on April 8.

As podcast hosts, Obama and Meghan are more buttoned-up. Despite their massive star power, their shows seem to make less of a ripple in the cultural conversation. In fact, the conversations they have on other shows seem to get more traction.

In Obama’s case, her Higher Ground production company promised she’ll be “at her most relaxed and honest” discussing life’s challenges, including relationships and parenting, with her only sibling and their A-list guests. While that sounds like exactly what audiences are into, it’s taken a while to find that sweet spot.

Instead of using IMO to address those relentless divorce rumors, which would be ratings gold, Obama talked about it on someone else’s podcast. While that was great for Sophia Bush’s Work in Progress, with the conversation spreading across social media, it did make listeners tune into Obama’s own show. Perhaps learning from that, two weeks later, she wisely used the show with her name on it to discuss her much-buzzed-about decision to skip President Trump’s inauguration.

Despite a reported slow start, Obama’s fans are tuning in. Podchaser, which tracks podcast popularity, estimates that IMO has had between 920,000 and 1.4 million listens in the last 30 days, a spokesperson told Yahoo Entertainment. As of press time, it’s No. 13 on Apple’s chart and No. 29 on Spotify’s.

“We just want someone to show up as they are,” Michelle Glogovac, aka the Podcast Matchmaker, told Yahoo about podcast hosts. “I think with Michelle Obama, we're getting some of her that we haven't seen before. She’s becoming more herself now that she can because for so long she really couldn’t.”

Glogovac likes that Obama — who previously hosted The Michelle Obama Podcast (2020) and Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast (2023) — chose to pair up with her brother this time.

“If you've read [Becoming], you know that her family is a huge part,” says Glovovac. “Her late mother lived in the White House. So having her brother be with her for this and having these conversations helps bring out who she is. It’s an extra layer that’s really cool. … We get to see her as a sister.”

Markle also has the opportunity to speak her mind, which she said she wasn’t allowed to do as a senior member of the royal family. However, the Suits alum is struggling with her public image — specifically what she shares about Prince Harry and their family — and that is reflected in her listenership.

Of course, Confessions of a Female Founder was created to promote her brand, As Ever, and not delve into her personal life. But on other forums she has made some interesting revelations about her family.

Meghan went makeup-free for her first-ever podcast interview on April 28’s The Jamie Kern Lima Show, getting emotional discussing the “trenches” of royal life and feeling she had to “prove” she’s a good wife. She talked about Archie having a cold and how he and Lilbet attend different schools. She got candid about early career challenges, her last name, and whether she plans to write another book (yes) or run for office (no). She also chatted about her family on stage for Time 100 on April 23.

Yet on COAFF, she’s made few personal revelations. While we know she’s a good friend, she doesn’t bring that friend with tea vibe to the show. It’s largely brand-centric, with guests the average person has to Google to know who they are. You have to be a committed fan — of which there are many, dating back to her Suits and The Tig days — to connect with it, not to mention be a woman interested in starting her own business on the brink of an economic crisis.

“I think with Megan, as just a regular person — putting the podcast and her Netflix show aside — she wants to gain recognition and to be known without giving away any of her personal details,” Glogovac said. “I don’t think that’s going to work for a podcast.”

So far, it isn’t. Podchaser estimates that COAFF has had between 36,000 and 46,000 listens since launch — which is, in As Ever terms, hundreds of thousands of flower sprinkles less than Obama’s show. It’s No. 158 on the Apple chart and didn’t crack on Spotify’s Top 100. For someone who generates as much press as she does, that figure suggests a disconnect. (It’s important to note that Meghan has fewer episodes than Obama, debuting nearly one month later.)

“Human beings love to hear the stories of other human beings,” Glogovac said. “That's why we eavesdrop at the coffee shop. I want to hear what's going on in that person's life, even if I don't know them… I think that’s what people want [on podcasts] — to get to know these human beings … and Meghan's not giving us that.”

People want a real glimpse into her life. They don’t seem to want business advice from someone who has resources the average person never will.

“Everything's so scrutinized for her,” Glogovac said. “Having the show is her opportunity to really show up as herself. I don't know if she's able to do it, or if she's just got this wall up... But you can see that the others are doing it and it’s working.”

There’s podcast success, however, that’s not measured by listens. COAFF — her second podcast after Archetypes failed to resonate, according to Spotify’s CEO — could purely be a branding move to sell more jam. However, if that’s driving it, you’d expect she would have stocked up on product first. As Ever sold out on day one and has been unavailable for the duration of her new podcast, a marketing miss.

Podcast audiences want authentici-tea

People see celebrities on screen everywhere these days. What they want from a podcast is the real person.

“Giving us something that we don’t already know is really what makes a show,” Glogovac said. “The behind-the-scenes [access], the secrets, spilling the tea so that we get to know the host on a personal level.”

That’s what Not Gonna Lie With Kylie Kelce has been for a lot of people. The host is on maternity leave after having her fourth child, but a typical episode sees her pulling back the curtain on life with her shirt-ripping, ex-NFL star husband, Jason Kelce. The field hockey coach, who loathes the “WAG” label, talks about their relationship and why, for example, she lets him sleep through night feedings, which spread across social media.

The 33-year-old’s observations about motherhood and pregnancy are honest and funny. She’ll point out the boogers on her on-camera outfit, talk about her effort not to urinate while watching comedy at 39 weeks pregnant and share original parenting hacks — like how she calls bathwater “butt soup” to discourage her daughters from drinking it. Kelce also debuted a sleeping baby Finn on the show at two days old.

“Kylie does spill the tea,” said Glogovac. “She’s honest. I hate the word 'authentic' — but she’s being herself. She's just showing up and being herself.”

It continues to pay off. Despite releasing three episodes this month, approximately one less than usual, Podchaser estimates that Kelce’s podcast has had between 1.7 million and 2.5 million listens over the last 30 days.

Another example of a celebrity podcast connecting with an audience is Good Hang With Amy Poehler, which debuted March 18 and, at press time, is the No. 1 show on Apple Podcasts and No. 27 on Spotify. The Saturday Night Live and Parks and Recreation alum promised the show would be “good dumb fun” and it is.

Poehler’s debut included an interview with the Lucy to her Ethel, Tina Fey, and it was like old times as they mocked rich people with side hustles, being sure to take the piss out of themselves along the way. The episode started with a comical few minutes of Poehler laugh-crying at another guest, Rachel Dratch, who navigated numerous interruptions, including a food delivery, during a mini SNL reunion.

The whole thing was “hilarious and natural,” Glogovac observed. “Amy could barely sit in her seat when she's talking because she's laughing so hard. We want to see that realness of who [hosts] are — not something that's scripted and trying to appease an audience.”

The realness extended to conversation with guest Jack Black bonding over their CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) machines , which treat sleep apnea. Also, there was some real talk with guest Kathryn Hahn about her prep for an upcoming Hot Ones — which sees celebs ripping into progressively spicier chicken wings — to a colonoscopy cleanse. The women also laughed for about a minute when Hahn accidentally burped — and we laughed too.

The “dumb fun” has brought in between an estimated 868,000 and 1.3 million listens to Poehler’s show over the last 30 days, according to Podchaser data.

Ultimately, podcasts shouldn’t feel like an obligation or a checkmark that a celebrity must earn for their Hollywood career climb. A good one can really elevate a star’s status by connecting them to their fans. A bad one can generate more negative press that an already beleaguered celebrity can do without.